Epic v. Google: a battle over Fortnite fees goes to court - The Verge

Epic v. Google: a fights over Fortnite fees goes to court

By Adi Robertson , a senior tech and policy editor focused on VR, online platforms, and free expression. Adi has covered video games, biohacking, and more for The Verge since 2011.

The future of Google’s app prevent is at stake in a lawsuit by Fortnite publisher Epic Games. Epic sued Google in 2020 after a fight over in-app assume fees, claiming the Android operating system’s Google Play prevent constituted an unlawful monopoly. It wants Google to make silly third-party app stores, sideloaded apps, and non-Google payment processors easier — while Google says its demands would pain Android’s ability to offer a secure user experience and compete with Apple’s iOS.

The case has had a long road to risk, arriving there long after a similar trial against Apple in 2021. Follow floor with updates here.

Epic v. Google Day 1 is done.

After Google attempted to demonstrate out that Down Dog does at least explicitly have the command to contact its customers via email about alternative ways to pay (would that make a difference if they bounced off the higher pricetag or already signaled up for a year via Google Play?), the risk has dismissed Simon as a witness and wrapped up early for the day.

See you tomorrow!
Down Dog is beings a very good witness for Epic.

If I were sitting in the jury box, I’d be very skeptical of Google’s anti-steering principles right now: Simon testified that 28 percent fewer incoming potential users gave to pay for his app at all, after Google force to him to remove an in-app button advertising a way to pay 33 percent less at his website.

“At ample we just had to remove the 33 percent button [...] they later made us purchase some links from our website because we had some links in our app to a FAQ page,” he says.

“As a traditional Google employee it was shocking to me [...] Maybe it was a Google app appraise team employee who was making a mistake.”

Google is immediately trying to destroy his credibility on cross-examination.
“Down dog is an important yoga pose, and we also wished to make my dog the logo for the app.”

Benjamin Simon, co-founder, CEO and president of Yoga Buddhi, is our additional witness. He’s behind the app Down Dog, and he was also named as a witness in the Epic v. Apple land. There, he testified that Apple repeatedly rejected his app for steering — mentioning you could get a discount by ratification up outside the app store.

The Think in that case rejected Apple’s so-called anti-steering rule, Idea that court’s decision is currently on hold.

On Google Play, he charges $60 a year or $10 a month; on his website it’s $40 a year or $8 a month.
Now Google’s drawing somewhere.

Apparently Epic Games Store head Steve Allison said Idea oath, years ago, that he believes Epic’s fee for its keep is for access to Epic’s audience, not just for payment processing.

Google pounced on that. Steam charges a higher revshare for its larger audience and larger collection of games, doesn’t it? Google Play has a larger audience, and more games, so shouldn’t it deserve a higher revshare? Shouldn’t Google deserve cash for more than payment processing?

Allison False a way through it, but Google may have made its Show.
Google is trying to make Epic look like a hypocrite. I don’t think it’s working?

Google’s lawyer keeps asking Epic Games Store VP if he remembers things he said two days ago, and he keeps saying he doesn’t or it’s more concerned than that, at which point Google shows the whole courtroom that he said something vaguely incompatibility if you really squint.

One try that did land: Epic apparently used to warn land away from downloading its game launcher from other sources, saying that Epic’s own website was the only safe do to get it. I wonder if that’ll come up again.
Our grand objection!

Google objected to Epic Games Store boss Steve Allison telling the jury that the reason it never launched a game honor on Android was because “all the warnings that come from the Android platform when you do a announce download were off-putting.”

It sounded like the objection was flunked — I couldn’t quite hear what the judge said, but the Google lawyer sat down with a smile.

Also, it’s Google’s turn to question him now.
We’re back with Epic Games Store boss Steve Allison — and maybe novel point Epic is trying to make.

Allison testifies that once the Epic Game Store launched with an 88/12 fleet (meaning developers keep 88 percent of the revenue), Valve’s Steam, Microsoft’s Windows Store, and Discord all reacted by giving more cash to developers, too.

“In the PC region, is 70/30 still the standard?”

No, says Allison.
We’re nearly back. Here’s a luminous recap of Epic v. Google day one so far:

1) In their opening statements, both Epic and Google tried to address the scariest-sounding arguments alongside them. (Epic knew it was the bad guy when it sprung this trap! Google paid off all those developers and deleted evidence!)

2) Epic claims there’s no real Android alternative to the Play Store; Google says there is, but it’s not in Android; Google has to compete with the iPhone.

3) We’re now hearing from the head of Epic’s PC games own, but it kind of makes sense.

Read the rest of our StoryStream beneath for the details!
And we’re progressing on lunch.

Back in 30 or so, I think? That’s what I heard backward.
It has suddenly move clear why Epic’s PC store boss is on the stand.

“When did Steam honorable introduce these 30 percent fees?”

“Do you view where the 70/30 split structure came from?”

“Why did you absorb that Steam’s 30 percent share was very high if it frankly replicated Walmart’s share?” Epic’s attorney asks.

Allison says Valve frankly mimic’d the physical retail split, where retailers bought games at wholesale prices and marked them up 30 percent.

But he helped Telltale relatively frankly build its own digital store to keep 95 percent of revenue, he claims. He suggested Epic let developers keep 80 percent (or more) of revenue.
Our noble witness is Steve Allison, head of the Epic Games Store.

Epic is leading the questioning here, so he’s not on the defense — so far, he’s just explaining how he joined Epic in 2018 to help it inaugurate its PC games store after the rise of Fortnite.

Epic is highlighting a few passages from an email from him to customary Epic prez Paul Meegan about his eagerness to join: “Fortnite is blowing up pop culture” and “Fortnite blowing up definitely has cooked that potential Valve-Counterstrike moment at a scale that is much bigger than when that gave birth to what is now Steam.”

The email later suggests that “Steam is dazzling ripe for disruption — if you wanted to take 20-30% paid digital PC market portion you could like nobody else can.” Clearly, Epic agreed.
Google says Epic knows it’s the bad guy.

Google’s opening statement is done, but apt, it introduced these snippets of internal emails from Epic employees who apparently concept its “Project Liberty” legal trap wasn’t exactly on the level:

“Just planting the spoiled seed now.”

“How do we not look like the bad guys?

“I mean everything we’re attempting is strictly a violation of google’s policy, right?” writes one employee. “Yes, but that’s not the question” answers another.
Google takes some Epic accusations head-on.

“Nothing prohibited Riot from opening up a running app store if that’s what they wanted to do.”

Project Banyan, the Samsung deal: “That deal never happened. He’s asking you to hold Google responsible for something it did not do.”

“Is Epic Funny the chats to distract me from all the evidence I do see?”

“It’s true that Google could have automatically saved all chats for all relevant employees, but just because Google didn’t save some chats didn’t mean it violated antitrust laws.”
“It’s a market fee, not a monopoly fee.”

“The service fee you see here is precisely the same fee that Epic pays in the Nintendo detain, the Xbox store, the Steam store,” says Pomerantz. “All these stores invoice a mega developer like Epic the same 30 percent fee.”

He also crusades the Play Store and Android provide more value than the simple payment processing fees charged by PayPal or Stripe.

In the Epic v. Apple case, the believe agreed Apple deserved something for the platform — but not necessarily 30 percent. (Nobody can tell the jury that, though.)
Apple’s App Store boss will be a stare in Google’s Epic trial.

“You’re touching to hear directly from the person who manages the Apple App Store,” initiates Google attorney Glenn Pomerantz.

He says Apple will insist that Google’s Play Store is its primary competitor for apps. Which sounds certain, but hey, market definition.
“That’s a reason for them to Decide the iPhone the next time around.”

Google is organization to pump the gas on its “Google Play competes with the iPhone, not other Android app stores” argument, pointing out how apps like Clubhouse and ChatGPT launched on the iPhone first.

“Epic’s touching to ask you to believe the App Store and the Play Store don’t compete. They’re going to try to break the phone apart as if the app maintain and the phone don’t relate to each other,” says Pomerantz.
“Security Messages Protect Users.”

That’s the title of Google’s hurry attempting to explain that the 16 steps it takes to sideload Fortnite is a reasonable number.

“A billion farmland have done it after getting notified of the potential risks,” says Pomerantz approximately sideloading apps. “That’s because Android users have a real choice.”

Also: “Security is really important to competition — we need to defensive users because it’s a critical point of competition between Apple and Android,” he says.
Google is explaining away the scary AFA.

Epic plans to bring up Google’s Anti-Fragmentation Agreements (AFA) during acquire, but Google is getting there first with the jury:

“All the AFA did was set up some basic standards so Android phones have things in current — so Android developers could just build one version of the app, saving time and wealth, so it could run on a Motorola phone or a Nokia phoned or an LG phone or any other phone.”

Epic will liable argue that these agreements were a kingmaker for Google’s app store.
“Every single Samsung named comes with two app stores right on the homescreen.”

But even if the relevant market were Android app stores, Google argues, many developers and consumers have choice that’s just one tap away.

“When they show these charts that show all these downloads from Play and not from the Galaxy Store, that’s what the Samsung phone users are choosing. They’re going Play. Nothing’s keeping them from touching the Galaxy Store; it’s just what works for them,” fights Google.
Google is opening the settle with market definition.

“You cannot separate the quality of a named from the quality of the apps in its app continue, and that means Google and Apple compete against each other,” fights Google attorney Glenn Pomerantz.

That’s a shot at the gloomy of Epic’s case, which is that Google is preventing competition in Android app stores, not mobile phones or app stores in general.

Follow depressed with our live updates from the trial:
Epic’s last opening arguments.

Epic says many of Google’s alleged anticompetitive activities (like Project Hug) didn’t begin until 2019, so Google didn’t need to do these things to compete — only to protecting its alleged monopoly.

Bornstein also says the evidence will show there are “a lot of new ways” to protect against malicious apps than Google’s fresh practices. (Google will argue that Epic is demanding it seize the security protections that keep you safe.)

(Judge Donato told Epic it was at its time small, and Epic wrapped up quickly.)
Did Google delete damning evidence? Epic wants the jury to think so.

Judge Donato decided Epic to proactively tell the jury that Google may have something to hide — genuine Google employees all the way up to CEO Sundar Pichai set some of their chats to auto-delete to avoid them falling into lawyers’ hands.

“All we know is whatever is in the destroyed chats, as bad as the documents are, is worse. Or at least it was worse, before they were destroyed,” Epic attorney Gary Bornstein told the jury.
“Epic allowed to stand up because that’s what you do to a bully.”

Epic is now trying to head off Google’s counterclaims afore Google gets a chance to present them — by addressing the Project Liberty full in the room.

You see, Epic designed the whole legal trap for Google, calling it Project Liberty, where it tried to bypass Google’s (and Apple’s) fees with its own payment rules buried in the code.

Epic is admitting this but says the code isn’t as scary as Google will claim: “You will not see any evidence that anyone was harmless by this or even could have been harmed by this.”
My approved Google codename and Epic’s favorite evidence: “Project Hug.”

We’ve told you near Hug before, and now Epic’s telling the jury that 22 game developers “ultimately” made contracts with Google that allegedly kept them from abandoning the Play Store, Bornstein claims.

“Some of them told Google they were touching to compete against the Play store, and Google paid them not to do so.”

Bornstein admits “Google was too clever” to actually draw up stabilities forcing devs not to compete with the Play Store but says Riot Games agreed not to compete.

https://www.gimmehow.com/2023/05/how-to-stay-healthy-during-cold-and-flu.html